Learning notes · Learning notes / session
A prepared test can reveal what an easy demonstration cannot, but creating an error is a case-specific method with explicit limits.
On this page · 14 sections
Answer
The trainers sometimes leave a choice available so they can respond to the choice rather than prevent it. Roxy’s go-home explanation includes both outcomes: reward the good choice, or respond if the unwanted behavior occurs. Finn’s trainer wants a recall opportunity with real competing motivation and distance. Bullet’s trainer describes making both outcomes of a choice apparent. These passages explain a particular proofing approach; they do not establish that all learning requires errors.
The same record limits the approach. Roxy’s handler warns against repeating the error setup too often. Dutchess’s difficult introduction is postponed so it can receive a more suitable arrangement and time. Kodak’s paired work names peaceful coexistence as the goal, not a dramatic confrontation. A quiet session can therefore be useful information even when the hoped-for test does not occur.
An unresolved distinction remains in Roxy’s dossier: some handlers interrupt an early movement or prevent completion, whereas others tell owners to let the choice happen. The source does not fully explain whether stage, handler or risk accounts for the difference. This needs Kelton’s review before it becomes a single owner instruction. The safe general lesson for a review page is to prepare meaningful assessments with the trainer, not to provoke biting, bolting or conflict at home.
Owner takeaway
Ask what a test is intended to establish, how the situation is contained, and what the trainer will do if the dog succeeds or struggles. Do not manufacture a dangerous failure to prove the training.
Across the cases
Roxy
The explanation permits a good choice as well as an error and attaches a limit on repeating the setup.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't like um that they shouldn't be doing. Um they're off limits for some reason. you penalize it and then you allow them to go back to freedom and choose what they're going to do next.
Watch at 13:44 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So learning, both in dogs and in humans, is not errorless, right? So they make errors, and you need to give them those choice points for them to actually make the error, like not coming back or something like that, in order for them to start learning.
Watch at 26:50 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Lola
The trainer calls errorless learning fake in his opinion. That is an attributed position, not an established scientific conclusion. The lighter-line passage also qualifies the environment as relatively low stakes.
Um which is good. We need that. We want it. Yeah. Um because there's no learning without error, right? Um errorless learning is fake in my opinion.
Watch at 05:12 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
it's a lot smaller so she can get away get away from me a lot easier so you need to have a little bit more trust to put this line on but she's doing good right now and we're not an incredibly high stakes environment or anything like that
Watch at 11:04 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Finn
The trainer names competing motivation and distance as conditions for the recall test he wants.
in order for me to proof it, I need him to be motivated to go somewhere else other than me and I need him to blow me off. doesn't blow me off i can't practice it and if he doesn't get further away from me than this i can't practice it so i need both of those things to be true to make progress here
Watch at 07:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
It's a little jump scare, but his reaction was to come to me, which was good. He just checked in and came back, so not a lot to work with there.
Watch at 08:35 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
bo
The handler gives exploration room on a long line; another account recognizes a good free choice without any command.
I'm going to put him on the long line. Let him explore. See if we can do a couple of recalls here. Come here, bud. Come on. Both. Sit. And he does great with his let goes. So, I'm going to put this long line on. And I don't really need the tab leash with him.
Watch at 06:32 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
communicate with him at all. He made his own choices and he made good choices and then I
Watch at 01:26 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
if you don't practice that uh them being in that window on a regular basis they won't make the right choices because they've never had to try
Watch at 01:46 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Zeus
The lesson values a difficult handover moment as practice the owner can use later, rather than prioritizing a smooth demonstration.
that was the most instructive thing that could have happened
Watch at 85:20 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i would have been disappointed if you had sat down and he just wanted it down it would make me look cool right potentially but i don't want to look cool i want it to work long term for you because me looking cool for the moment doesn't make happy clients it doesn't make a nice life for you
Watch at 81:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Dutchess
The higher-risk introduction is moved to a planned time; the trainer explicitly names the consequences of being unready.
i don't want to bring the two in that she has a problem with quite yet i want to handle that on like the drop off day
Watch at 09:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Bullet
The trainer frames a failed down near a desired doorway as an opportunity to clarify consequences.
And that's what proofing is all about. You have to put them in situations where they're going to fail like that.
Watch at 10:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So that you can show them the negative consequences of not doing what you ask and the positive consequences of doing what you ask.
Watch at 10:14 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
so he really wanted to go outside and get some more freedom so when I was asking him to down
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
King
The truck door is selected because it is a temptation for this dog, and the report qualifies the distance of other distractions.
he's really going to want to go get in the truck when i open the door so that'll be a test for him see if he holds it down
Watch at 24:19 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Alright so Kings done really good on like holding his command for a longer duration with distractions more distractions there were dogs walking by and stuff like that this whole time a little far away that they were walking but still good to see
Watch at 25:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Dolce
A session can contain difficulty and still be assessed positively, while the same account recognizes a tendency to shut down.
well that was a really good session with dulce i well maybe not the most everything went well type one we did have a lot of healthy conflict
Watch at 16:35 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
another thing about dulce she does shut down semi-quickly
Watch at 16:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source excerpts
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't like um that they shouldn't be doing. Um they're off limits for some reason. you penalize it and then you allow them to go back to freedom and choose what they're going to do next.
Watch at 13:44 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So learning, both in dogs and in humans, is not errorless, right? So they make errors, and you need to give them those choice points for them to actually make the error, like not coming back or something like that, in order for them to start learning.
Watch at 26:50 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Um which is good. We need that. We want it. Yeah. Um because there's no learning without error, right? Um errorless learning is fake in my opinion.
Watch at 05:12 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
it's a lot smaller so she can get away get away from me a lot easier so you need to have a little bit more trust to put this line on but she's doing good right now and we're not an incredibly high stakes environment or anything like that
Watch at 11:04 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
in order for me to proof it, I need him to be motivated to go somewhere else other than me and I need him to blow me off. doesn't blow me off i can't practice it and if he doesn't get further away from me than this i can't practice it so i need both of those things to be true to make progress here
Watch at 07:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
It's a little jump scare, but his reaction was to come to me, which was good. He just checked in and came back, so not a lot to work with there.
Watch at 08:35 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
I'm going to put him on the long line. Let him explore. See if we can do a couple of recalls here. Come here, bud. Come on. Both. Sit. And he does great with his let goes. So, I'm going to put this long line on. And I don't really need the tab leash with him.
Watch at 06:32 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
communicate with him at all. He made his own choices and he made good choices and then I
Watch at 01:26 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
if you don't practice that uh them being in that window on a regular basis they won't make the right choices because they've never had to try
Watch at 01:46 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
that was the most instructive thing that could have happened
Watch at 85:20 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i would have been disappointed if you had sat down and he just wanted it down it would make me look cool right potentially but i don't want to look cool i want it to work long term for you because me looking cool for the moment doesn't make happy clients it doesn't make a nice life for you
Watch at 81:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i don't want to bring the two in that she has a problem with quite yet i want to handle that on like the drop off day
Watch at 09:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
And that's what proofing is all about. You have to put them in situations where they're going to fail like that.
Watch at 10:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So that you can show them the negative consequences of not doing what you ask and the positive consequences of doing what you ask.
Watch at 10:14 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
so he really wanted to go outside and get some more freedom so when I was asking him to down
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
he's really going to want to go get in the truck when i open the door so that'll be a test for him see if he holds it down
Watch at 24:19 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Alright so Kings done really good on like holding his command for a longer duration with distractions more distractions there were dogs walking by and stuff like that this whole time a little far away that they were walking but still good to see
Watch at 25:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
well that was a really good session with dulce i well maybe not the most everything went well type one we did have a lot of healthy conflict
Watch at 16:35 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
another thing about dulce she does shut down semi-quickly
Watch at 16:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
How the trainers explain it
The trainers use choice points to make the consequence of a response salient. That mechanism is their explanation of the work. The record also includes prevention and early interruption, so it cannot support one timing rule for every case.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
in order for me to proof it, I need him to be motivated to go somewhere else other than me and I need him to blow me off. doesn't blow me off i can't practice it and if he doesn't get further away from me than this i can't practice it so i need both of those things to be true to make progress here
Watch at 07:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
This is a synthesis of the cited training record, not a controlled comparison or a measurement of the dog’s internal state.
Differences to review
Allow the choice versus interrupt its beginning
Roxy’s dossier retains both approaches; their boundary is not resolved by the selected explanation. Preserve the difference for review instead of turning it into a universal rule.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Errors as a learning method versus errors as a necessity
Lola’s trainer explicitly labels his broad statement as opinion. Evidence of a chosen proofing method is not proof that other learning is impossible.
Um which is good. We need that. We want it. Yeah. Um because there's no learning without error, right? Um errorless learning is fake in my opinion.
Watch at 05:12 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Questions and answers
Is a compliant session wasted?
No. Roxy’s explanation includes praising the dog for not making the unwanted choice, and Bo’s account describes good choices without commands.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
communicate with him at all. He made his own choices and he made good choices and then I
Watch at 01:26 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Should I recreate the hardest situation at home?
Dutchess’s lesson shows postponement and preparation, not casual provocation. The plan depends on the actual risk and qualified handling.
i don't want to bring the two in that she has a problem with quite yet i want to handle that on like the drop off day
Watch at 09:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Teaching outline
A prepared test can reveal what an easy demonstration cannot, but creating an error is a case-specific method with explicit limits.
For a recorded proofing example, identify the competing attraction, containment, criterion and exit plan. Mark what the successful outcome would show and what it would leave untested.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
in order for me to proof it, I need him to be motivated to go somewhere else other than me and I need him to blow me off. doesn't blow me off i can't practice it and if he doesn't get further away from me than this i can't practice it so i need both of those things to be true to make progress here
Watch at 07:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Is this a contained assessment with a defined purpose, or simply repeated exposure to a known problem?
Trainer notes
The trainers use choice points to make the consequence of a response salient. That mechanism is their explanation of the work. The record also includes prevention and early interruption, so it cannot support one timing rule for every case.
all right, like let me like manage her with the leash or with other things or with my body and like make sure it doesn't happen, let it happen because either number one will happen, which is she won't do it, and you go, "Oh, good job." Right? um or they will do it, right? And then if she does it, then you have an opportunity to give a consequence for the choice she made and then she'll make a better choice next time, right?
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
you don't need to do it too many times in a row otherwise you end up with problems
Watch at 27:47 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
in order for me to proof it, I need him to be motivated to go somewhere else other than me and I need him to blow me off. doesn't blow me off i can't practice it and if he doesn't get further away from me than this i can't practice it so i need both of those things to be true to make progress here
Watch at 07:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
sometimes when there's bigger stuff like that i like to make sure everything is really nice and tight that way like it's very foolproof because the last thing i want is to have some kind of emergency where it was like not quite ready and something bad happened right
Watch at 09:40 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source moments
Still to establish
How does Kelton distinguish correcting a precursor, preventing completion and allowing a choice to occur?
Which examples are appropriate for owner instruction rather than professional observation?
Source limitations
Quotations are copied verbatim from the current local transcript, including transcription errors. Exact text matching does not independently verify the audio or identify a speaker.
The dossier is derived from existing Tier 1 and Tier 2 research; its broad-concept sighting cap may omit further examples. Dogs covered records reviewed dossier context, not a claim that every dog supplies equally strong evidence.
Equipment levels, inferred motives and outcome claims describe the cited case; they are not universal settings, diagnoses or independently established results.
Connected library collections
These links follow eligible video assignments in the reviewed library. A source can feature more than one animal; the older research-folder name is not used to merge identities.
Related concepts
- What should I use to distract my dog when I test him?
- How do I know if my dog is actually reliable?
- My dog shuts down during training - what do I do?
- Is one hard correction kinder than lots of small ones?
- What makes a correction fair?
- How do you safely work with a dog that bites?
- How do I introduce two dogs that don't get on?